Another atrocity



      And the world turns we wake up to pictures of pure horror, the remains of the big gracefull Airliner scattered over three sq miles,the human cargo lies broken and torn many of them children,it will most likely be the latest vile atrocity carried out by the rebels incorporating Ukraine with its previous masters Russia,and it will almost certainly cause a escalation of the trouble there and could even kick off another world war, after all Ukraine has alingned itself with the west and if they ask for help from NATO,  and are given assistance that will infuriate the Russians then the world will once again be on the brink, just who do these thugs think they are, if you listen to the recording of a communication between the head thug and the most murderous thug they are actually laughing about it , whats so funny about destroying the big 777 shattering it into millions of pieces ,whats so funny about mothers and children still alive strapped to their seats screaming in terror, from six miles up it would take  roughly about three minutes to impact, how can this cancerous race even be allowed to escape,justice  which they will I despair for the human race, we are well ahead in the race to our own destruction foot planted firmly on the gas.

                                                  A very angry very sad  Fed


The future direction of the world does seem too hinge on Mr Putin , what he does or doesn't do next or if he's the world leader he should be, Life certainly does seem to hold a very cheap value I was dismayed by the actions of Israel shelling children playing football on a beach seem's a all time low for a nation that really should know better in what is right level response and what is a Atrocity.


Unfortunately the human condition is that violence begets violence , if there is no threat of retaliation then any country that wants to dominate and control it's own people or others in near by country's are free to do so,

You only have to look at hitlers view of the world or stalins or any of the dictators from history then compaire them to Israel  Syria and Russia today, the only way to prevent atrositys is the threat of force on the same or of a greater level,we older ones remember the Cold War were mutual anialation stoped the onset of war in Europe for many years and  terrorism was an unusual event,

We all moan and complain about the cost of our armed forces and the waist of money for aircraft carears ,but they are the very things that keep not only us safe but other country's as well , before both world wars we run our military down to very low levels and look what happened then.

Alas the country with the biggest stick calls the tune ,it's human nature that the strong rule the week and thoughs prepaird to use force will do so if no one will stand up to them   Eg china and Tibet  how long have we turned a blind eye to that ?

Any way that's my take on the world maybe not politically correct but that's the trouble with the  " civilised " world today no one wants to stand up and say no more enoughs enough for fear of upsetting someone's feelings. 

So live well and let's hope it's all ok tomorrow    or the day after ect.  Ect. Ect



Hello   Cc

            I agree and I have never changed my mind so quickly regarding the carrier project,  its always been the case that the russians have a very low value of human life and I do think Putin is testing to see how the west retaliates, if NATO is shown to be weak he will chance it, just as Hitler did , there will be thoughts in some dark corner of premptive strikes, you only have to look at headlines in this mornings papers of the woman wearing clothes looted from Asian Airlines  777 to see the level of respect  the east has for the west, and putin does nothing he is of the mould of stalin, no compassion or pity or sadness regarding the horrible deaths of nearly 300 souls, just pathetic attempts to wriggle out of being blamed, the threat of the Islamic hordes  overunning the world is also a very real possibility if anything we are under greater threat now than both the previous world wars put together .

                                           A very worried Fed


Hi Fed 

Well I sat here and wrote a long post about the possible out come of the unrest in the world today but after reading through it before posting I found it so rasistd that if I had posted it mister plod would have knocked my door down n carted me of never to be seen again, ..........this is a free country ?    So I delited it and wrote this instead . 

My only son is my hero I admire the life he has chosen and feel ashamed of the way his country has treated him.      My son was a soldier he served for fourteen years as a combat pioneer , on active servise in northan Ireland  Bosnia and six back to back tours in Iraq  he went into Iraq on day one and served longer there than any other soldier in the British army,he received several medels and a joint commanders commendation from U S and Brit commanders,after returning to the uk he was given his pick of postings anything except afghan as he was deemed to have post traumatic stress , he picked Germany for three year tour my son is not a spit n polish person  and kept falling foul of dress rules until busted to corporal again ,on return to uk was told to take redundancy as it unlikely he'd get another three year stint when his contract ran out , he now lives n works in Scotland for an oil company and no one from the army has asked if he's ok after all that time in a combat zone

 What a way to treat a true hero.        

   Live well. Cc


I think the forum should be  like a dinner party...religion and politics treated with caution.

I admire your son immensely, CC , although not surprised at his treatment by the ruling class in the army,,,lions led by donkeys still.

Fed, you are clearly passionate in your beliefs but I see no criticism of America, Great Britain, the EU in instigating such horrors and then throwing their hands up in horror at the consequences... Iraq, Afganistan, the Ukraine..

After all, the EU armed and pushed the Ukrainian rebels to bring down the elected President and then we renamed the  huge amount of Ukrainians who had a Russian culture and loyalty to Russia as the "rebels"...The EU pushes on towards the East, hellbent on expansion.

Perhaps the forum is best not getting involved in the arguments as it can cause endless and escalating problems.





I once asked my son why he wanted to fight in Iraq and desperate wanted to go to Afghanistan even though it may have risked his own health ,his words to me were the most profound I'm ever likely to hear and comming from a lad who appears big and dumb made them even more special , and I now quote.     Well dad my little girl will go to school and learn right from wrong and life and death about the world and her place in it, if we educate girls and women the world will be a safer place as the first lessons you learn are from your mother , and if she is ignorant the child learns ignorance and is Easley led by violent men ,no educated women wants to see her child die needlessly and will try to protecte them at all that's why I'm prepaird to fight for thoughts who can't ,

Unfortunately that's been shown not always to de true now with highly educated young women from this country going abroad to support  Islamic extremes  , I guess he must feel somewhat betrayd :-((

Live well. Cc



   Hello Golden Girl

                      You are totally correct in your viewpoint  and the Hypocrasy shown by Britain and America is breathtaking you are also correct in saying politics  religion  and other highly emotive subjects shoul  not be part of this Forum, and by responding to the photo headlines of a woman wearing the looted clothes from one of the passengers  of the Asian Airlines 777 and the proof that russia was ultimately to blame I  am  very worried that putin has never expressed his horror or regret the man has a agenda, and it does not include  normal trade and encouraging a more amenable attitude when dealing with western democrasies  , our planet  is in a very bad way, instead of wars we should be trying our utmost to save our world this is not how putin  thinks, hes sitting on the fence trickling weapons into  Ukraine and hoping  it isnt noticed  if it all goes wrong he will blame the thugs whos goal is the partition of  Ukraine its the total disrespect  for those poor people on that 777 that upsets me their loved ones will never recover,   ,but you are  correct  GG   there isnt anything I   can do to stop another World War, and it makes me think that everything Cc  son did to keep us safe in our beds has been wasted  squandered, god knows the horrors that young  man has witnessed  then to be junked when the effects of  the terrible trauma began take its toll  surely we cannot allow this to  happen again, why dont they wake up, once again we stand on a very narrow ledge with one foot over the Abyss.

                                                   Kindest Regards       Fed




Hi Fed & CC,
I've got to agree about the carriers.
We, as a country, were in an unusual position in 2010, when the incoming Government was faced with an almighty, financial mess left by the outgoing government ( this is fact not party politics ) and therefore they, as would any incoming government of any party, had no choice but to 'juggle' the budget - obviously making completely the wrong decisions according to some ,and yet absolutely right decisions according to others , which rightly or wrongly, included the decommissioning of the old carriers, and Harriers.
Interested parties , of which I freely admit I'm one ( I think they made an unforgivable error ), will always have something to say about less money being spent on their pet projects, and the usual suspects will moan no matter what any government does, because it happens not to be made up of their party of choice.
The sad fact is that there is no going back, so we should quietly mourn the loss of the old carriers and the Harriers, but embrace the new life which will be with us for many years to come.
So we currently have no aircraft for the carriers, but should there be a need, there are conventional aircraft available to us, from abroad, & at short notice, albeit not as up to date as we would ideally like, and we are blessed with extremely competent aircrew, capable of quickly re- training, although experience of deck landings will be somewhat limited. 
In an emergency, I'm sure that aircrews can be accommodated at the USN facilities in Florida and join in the current carrier landing training program.
The cost of installing an emergency catapult , and arrester gear if found necessary, is small compared to the overall cost of the carrier, and could be done quickly. ( the flight decks of the new carriers are probably long enough for many aircraft to take off without assistance, but arrester gear is probably essential )
Some say that the days of manned aircraft and therefore carriers are over, well with regard to manned aircraft v drones, just imagine a drone seeing off a Russian TU-95 'Bear' encroaching on our airspace - I can hear the Cossacks laughing all the way to our coastline.
Manned aircraft, therefore,  inc. carrier based, are and will be for many years to come, an essential part of our defence, as well as our commitment to our allies and protectorates, but of course there is fast becoming a need for drones also, but only initially as a supplement/complement for, 'not as a replacement for manned aircraft' - not in my lifetime anyway.
Until potential enemies abandon conventional aircraft, drones will always have a secondary role in defence, but potentially of course may have a primary role in attack and ground support.
So carriers are still our immediate future, in my humble opinion,
Sorry to be so long winded.