And again......
The DAs do a great job at improving the quality of life of the majority of sufferers (76%), but the others get REAL problems. I absolutely and totally confirm to you now (Although remember I am NOT medically qualified, so you must not take any action without talking first to your neurologist) that every out-of-character recent change in your brother's behaviour is being caused by his medication.
When you say he mustn't use the drugs as an excuse, it's not that simple. The drug takes over the mind completely, removing the patient's knowledge or understanding of the difference between right and wrong, and depriving them of the ability and willpower to say no.
The problem with trying to resolve the body's dopamine shortfall in order to improve mobility is that dopamine is NOT ONLY used by the body for movement control, but ALSO by the brain's risk-and-reward and pleasure systems. When a brain neuron "dishes out" a portion of dopamine to allow a certain single function to be achieved, it will no doubt be a minuscule portion, exactly the amount necessary. But when we humans intervene, with great big pills containing a whole day's worth, the whole area is likely to get swamped. This leads to far too much replacement dopamine reaching the reward and pleasure systems, with massive implications.
tbc
It's me.
The problem with gambling is that the results, generally, are totally random. When the brain is confronted with any problem it will keep on trying to work out the result. The purpose of this, biologically, is to work out what is happening, how and why, so that it can store this information all away in long-term memory. It will register where it's been filed, and should that problem ever arise again it will know how to resolve it. Essential in the jungle.
However it doesn't understand the idea of completely random results, and it will carry on ad infinitum searching for patterns and predictability. If it never discovers how to predict the answer (e.g. slots, roulette, horses, lottery) it gets more and more frustrated, and devotes more and more brainpower to the impossible task.
Under normal circumstances the brain would convey less and less dopamine into the risk-and-reward system, thus introducing a sort of "cut-off", or safety limit. But when humankind has dumped a big pile of drugs into it no cut-off is possible, and the pleasures and risks surge all over you, providing excitement, pleasure and arousal at levels never before experienced. Believe me.
THAT is why the gambling becomes such a major obsession. The sufferer may THINK they're trying to win (or replace) a fortune, but they're actually being driven by a brain which is in desperate need of solutions to impossible questions, and which has an excess of doctor-provided chemicals. The same principle applies to betting on the horses. Results are generally unpredictable, and it drives the brain mad!
For the 24% (or more, as there are bound to be secretive sufferers "lying low", and some who know they're out of control, but don't know what's causing it.
tbc
The problem with gambling is that the results, generally, are totally random. When the brain is confronted with any problem it will keep on trying to work out the result. The purpose of this, biologically, is to work out what is happening, how and why, so that it can store this information all away in long-term memory. It will register where it's been filed, and should that problem ever arise again it will know how to resolve it. Essential in the jungle.
However it doesn't understand the idea of completely random results, and it will carry on ad infinitum searching for patterns and predictability. If it never discovers how to predict the answer (e.g. slots, roulette, horses, lottery) it gets more and more frustrated, and devotes more and more brainpower to the impossible task.
Under normal circumstances the brain would convey less and less dopamine into the risk-and-reward system, thus introducing a sort of "cut-off", or safety limit. But when humankind has dumped a big pile of drugs into it no cut-off is possible, and the pleasures and risks surge all over you, providing excitement, pleasure and arousal at levels never before experienced. Believe me.
THAT is why the gambling becomes such a major obsession. The sufferer may THINK they're trying to win (or replace) a fortune, but they're actually being driven by a brain which is in desperate need of solutions to impossible questions, and which has an excess of doctor-provided chemicals. The same principle applies to betting on the horses. Results are generally unpredictable, and it drives the brain mad!
For the 24% (or more, as there are bound to be secretive sufferers "lying low", and some who know they're out of control, but don't know what's causing it.
tbc
Sod it I have just typed a very long reply to you and it has disappeared into cyber space.
I hate that, but I thank you and get what you are saying to me just need to try to get my SIL to understand all that's going on. She is worried that he may have
touched the children especially the young daughter. The SS people have been talking to the children as they only know how to ask questions to make the children comfortable. God only knows. I just have to keep strong to keep the whole family together and it is draining me.
I hate that, but I thank you and get what you are saying to me just need to try to get my SIL to understand all that's going on. She is worried that he may have
touched the children especially the young daughter. The SS people have been talking to the children as they only know how to ask questions to make the children comfortable. God only knows. I just have to keep strong to keep the whole family together and it is draining me.
Hi.
Back to basics, then. In nearly all cases of OCDs caused by PD drugs, the drugs concerned are DAs. I've only come across one case which DIDN'T involve DAs. A professor of Neurology with whom I've worked assures me that once your body has experienced the uncontrolled pleasures and risks whilst in that state, the patient should NEVER be given ANY DAs ever again. The desires and cold-turkey are every bit as powerful as illegal drugs like heroine, and even a single one-off half-milligram tablet will pull you back in. Your brain will have registered DAs as a source of exquisite pleasure, and as soon as it "gets a sniff" of them again it'll take over control.
Now some cases:-
One forum user lost £60,000 gambling while she was on DAs.
Another forum user, a carer for her PD affected husband watched him become threatening and devious whilst he set up a Malaysian lady in a new flat. Losses over £80,000. Wife was close to suicide.
One man dressed up in women's clothes and then attacked his wife with a shovel.
One Cabergoline user chased his wife all over town, and poured paint over her car directly outsid her place of work. She went to stay at her mother's house for a while, and while she was in that house he burnt it down, killing his mother in law and badly disfiguring his wife. He was arrested for murder and held in custody pending trial, but whilst there he was seen by hospital doctors who took him off the DA. He immediately returned to normal, but realising what he'd done was so distraught that he committed suicide.
For my part I was involved in a number of different obsessions over 7 years, losing my career and 1st marriage in the process. I lost my house and all possessions. Spent £600,000. Total losses, including future income, pension rights, house, etc £2 million. Currently living in cheap, rented slum.
Must go now, back later.
GET HIM OFF ALL DA'S NOW!
And confiscate all cash, cards, cheques, bank accounts NOW! Then change his PINs and passwords. Warn friends and family, plus bank, bookies, loan sharks, etc. Retain car logbooks.
Back to basics, then. In nearly all cases of OCDs caused by PD drugs, the drugs concerned are DAs. I've only come across one case which DIDN'T involve DAs. A professor of Neurology with whom I've worked assures me that once your body has experienced the uncontrolled pleasures and risks whilst in that state, the patient should NEVER be given ANY DAs ever again. The desires and cold-turkey are every bit as powerful as illegal drugs like heroine, and even a single one-off half-milligram tablet will pull you back in. Your brain will have registered DAs as a source of exquisite pleasure, and as soon as it "gets a sniff" of them again it'll take over control.
Now some cases:-
One forum user lost £60,000 gambling while she was on DAs.
Another forum user, a carer for her PD affected husband watched him become threatening and devious whilst he set up a Malaysian lady in a new flat. Losses over £80,000. Wife was close to suicide.
One man dressed up in women's clothes and then attacked his wife with a shovel.
One Cabergoline user chased his wife all over town, and poured paint over her car directly outsid her place of work. She went to stay at her mother's house for a while, and while she was in that house he burnt it down, killing his mother in law and badly disfiguring his wife. He was arrested for murder and held in custody pending trial, but whilst there he was seen by hospital doctors who took him off the DA. He immediately returned to normal, but realising what he'd done was so distraught that he committed suicide.
For my part I was involved in a number of different obsessions over 7 years, losing my career and 1st marriage in the process. I lost my house and all possessions. Spent £600,000. Total losses, including future income, pension rights, house, etc £2 million. Currently living in cheap, rented slum.
Must go now, back later.
GET HIM OFF ALL DA'S NOW!
And confiscate all cash, cards, cheques, bank accounts NOW! Then change his PINs and passwords. Warn friends and family, plus bank, bookies, loan sharks, etc. Retain car logbooks.
Understanding is the key. He may look weird and act crazy, but IT'S NOT HIS FAULT. If he wasn't properly warned, blame lies with his neurologist.
You have given me alot to think about and to work with many thanks
Radz
Radz
Hi,
Well as conversations go,i have got to say that something very odd is afoot.The flow of the current conversation does not seem to ring true to me.I could go on,but as it is just a gut feeling,will leave it there.
Will observe closely,with interest
All the best
Titan
Well as conversations go,i have got to say that something very odd is afoot.The flow of the current conversation does not seem to ring true to me.I could go on,but as it is just a gut feeling,will leave it there.
Will observe closely,with interest
All the best
Titan
I've no idea what you're talking about, T, but no interest either.
Cya.
Cya.
Have I said or done something to offend someone here. If I have please tell me what it is. All I am trying to do is get some facts from people who know why my brother may be behaving like he is.
Hi Radar, sorry for the delay. Can you please change your settings to receive PMs, or PM me?
Done, do you know what or why Titan said that
If I may ask a Q?
Is it a good idea to confiscate £ & cards & remove all all access to £ from people in the grip of an addiction? I ask because some friends of mine,on discovering that their daughter was involved with some serios drugs did exactly that. They didn't know what else to do. Their well intentioned actions led to all sorts of trouble.I use the word addiction with care. Maybe OCD behaviour responds differently to such actions?
Is it a good idea to confiscate £ & cards & remove all all access to £ from people in the grip of an addiction? I ask because some friends of mine,on discovering that their daughter was involved with some serios drugs did exactly that. They didn't know what else to do. Their well intentioned actions led to all sorts of trouble.I use the word addiction with care. Maybe OCD behaviour responds differently to such actions?
Good morning Annebernadette.......I am glad you asked that question.....although I feel one should but then I am thinking if everything is taken from him he will have nothing. Debit/credit cards I think might be a good idea to take away but surely they (at least my brother) needs afew bob in his pocket for newspaper etc...Sure I don't know what I'm talking about I guess many others in here will have sometime more helpful to say....
Radz
Radz
Sorry to be a pain in the butt but could anyone please tell me if you can edit a post you have made.
Thank you in advance
Thank you in advance
hello radar
I was not actually referring to the need for a few bob in the pocket for a newspaper, but a resort to theft & prostitution in a desperate need for drugs
You can edit before posting - I don't do it often enough, but once posted it's gone
I was not actually referring to the need for a few bob in the pocket for a newspaper, but a resort to theft & prostitution in a desperate need for drugs
You can edit before posting - I don't do it often enough, but once posted it's gone
This is a serious thread. Ray is giving excellent advice born out of true fear for what he knows CAN happen.
May I also suggest R. that you seek professional help.
mrs.t.
May I also suggest R. that you seek professional help.
mrs.t.
Hi Radz.
Sorry about the gaps in communication. PD affects me in that way: one minute I can be relatively normal, then very slow and trance-like, then totally frozen for a while, then fast asleep. Durations unpredictable, but I rarely sleep for more than a few hours, whatever the time of day.
Afew points, in random order:
Certainly doctors generally prefer to wean you off drugs slowly, just like in alcohol or drug abuse clinics. However horses for courses. I had been on DAs for 7 years, and just wanted to stop NOW. I wouldn't wait. So BANG that was it. I felt pretty rough for a couple of days, and then had to wait a few weeks to clear my body before they could start me up again with a different drug group. These weeks were a bit uncomfortable as I was effectively a PD patient with NO medication. But bearable. However I repeat, do NOTHING without talking to the (so-called) experts.
When I started there were virtually no warnings on packets at all. Now it seems to have gone the other way. Every single drug seems to have the same long list of POSSIBLE side effects, just to cover the drug companies' backsides - most unhelpful. But the onus is on the consultant to explain it all to you, and involve you in any decision-making.
Your bro's shopping patterns sound just like me. I went into M&S on one occasion for a pair of shorts, and spent £600 on clothes. 2 huge TVs. Top class 3-piece suite, dining table/chairs, dresser, giant BBQ, hundreds of new CDs, massive sound system, etc, etc.
Show your bro the list of SOME obsessions, especially the line about marital distrust and suspicion. Tell him WE UNDERSTAND. Remind him what a catastrophic effect his suicide would have on the kids. Tell him there are scores of folk on here who have survived what he's going through right now - it CAN be beaten! Maybe get him to talk to a PD nurse on our Help Line.
When I got divorced my ex-wife told my son I was a pervert. He'll now have nothing to do with me. Has only spoken to me once since he was 13. He's 22 now. Please don't anyone follow that route.
tbc
Sorry about the gaps in communication. PD affects me in that way: one minute I can be relatively normal, then very slow and trance-like, then totally frozen for a while, then fast asleep. Durations unpredictable, but I rarely sleep for more than a few hours, whatever the time of day.
Afew points, in random order:
Certainly doctors generally prefer to wean you off drugs slowly, just like in alcohol or drug abuse clinics. However horses for courses. I had been on DAs for 7 years, and just wanted to stop NOW. I wouldn't wait. So BANG that was it. I felt pretty rough for a couple of days, and then had to wait a few weeks to clear my body before they could start me up again with a different drug group. These weeks were a bit uncomfortable as I was effectively a PD patient with NO medication. But bearable. However I repeat, do NOTHING without talking to the (so-called) experts.
When I started there were virtually no warnings on packets at all. Now it seems to have gone the other way. Every single drug seems to have the same long list of POSSIBLE side effects, just to cover the drug companies' backsides - most unhelpful. But the onus is on the consultant to explain it all to you, and involve you in any decision-making.
Your bro's shopping patterns sound just like me. I went into M&S on one occasion for a pair of shorts, and spent £600 on clothes. 2 huge TVs. Top class 3-piece suite, dining table/chairs, dresser, giant BBQ, hundreds of new CDs, massive sound system, etc, etc.
Show your bro the list of SOME obsessions, especially the line about marital distrust and suspicion. Tell him WE UNDERSTAND. Remind him what a catastrophic effect his suicide would have on the kids. Tell him there are scores of folk on here who have survived what he's going through right now - it CAN be beaten! Maybe get him to talk to a PD nurse on our Help Line.
When I got divorced my ex-wife told my son I was a pervert. He'll now have nothing to do with me. Has only spoken to me once since he was 13. He's 22 now. Please don't anyone follow that route.
tbc
Hi Radz.
To avoid losing large posts I usually write them in Word, where they get saved. Then when finished I cut & paste them across.
If it helps, get SIL and the SS to browse through this forum too, there's plenty here to learn. They don't need to register if they only want to browse.
You can't amend a post once it's been submitted.
AB+Radz: The trouble with OCDs is they take over your mind COMPLETELY. I 100% guarantee that if your bro had no funds in the world apart from £1 in his pocket for a paper and a bus to work, he'd go sick, forget the paper and take his £1 to the bookies. After that he'll start to consider crime. In my case I ended up in court for fraud. Prior to that they'd given me a free short break in a secure psychiatric obsrvation ward.
Don't anyone EVER forget how serious this is. I worked bloody hard for 40 years to get what I had, and lost the lot, including my only kid.
Bye for now.
Ray.
To avoid losing large posts I usually write them in Word, where they get saved. Then when finished I cut & paste them across.
If it helps, get SIL and the SS to browse through this forum too, there's plenty here to learn. They don't need to register if they only want to browse.
You can't amend a post once it's been submitted.
AB+Radz: The trouble with OCDs is they take over your mind COMPLETELY. I 100% guarantee that if your bro had no funds in the world apart from £1 in his pocket for a paper and a bus to work, he'd go sick, forget the paper and take his £1 to the bookies. After that he'll start to consider crime. In my case I ended up in court for fraud. Prior to that they'd given me a free short break in a secure psychiatric obsrvation ward.
Don't anyone EVER forget how serious this is. I worked bloody hard for 40 years to get what I had, and lost the lot, including my only kid.
Bye for now.
Ray.
hi titan
What exactly are you implying in your post on 02/07/2011 at 19.00?
Are you suggesting Radar47 is a fake username made up by Ray or someone else? If you are, then surely a request to investigate from you to the moderators would be a better option? I'm no computer expert however given each PC has a unique location ID, the moderator should be able to identify if multiple users are being set up from the same location?
best wishes
bluey
username blueeyes47 and no relation to radar47
What exactly are you implying in your post on 02/07/2011 at 19.00?
Are you suggesting Radar47 is a fake username made up by Ray or someone else? If you are, then surely a request to investigate from you to the moderators would be a better option? I'm no computer expert however given each PC has a unique location ID, the moderator should be able to identify if multiple users are being set up from the same location?
best wishes
bluey
username blueeyes47 and no relation to radar47
Hi,
Apologies Radar,Ray,Blueeyes,and all.Strange times,strange me,sorry for cryptic message,lost my own tracking i feel.Radar back on.Heading above may be apt.
All the best
Titan
Apologies Radar,Ray,Blueeyes,and all.Strange times,strange me,sorry for cryptic message,lost my own tracking i feel.Radar back on.Heading above may be apt.
All the best
Titan