Looking through the 6 pages of posts I note that 19 people have posted, often repeatedly, in support of Ray being part of the forum and 6 people have posted agreeing with the moderators'decision.
Does this not prove that Ray's valuable support and input outweigh any perceived offense through occasional ill-worded passionate posts
Well one explanation for the numbers 19/6, certainly not the only one I have heard amongst the Parkinson community
Thankyou Moderators, I have heard widespread support and relief at your decision from PWP. It is mostly from the many people who no longer post here.
goldengirl....Are you saying that members who have felt intimidated and bullied by rays input and who have felt unable to be a part of this forum because of his outbursts and ridicule towards them aren't important enough to have their say? To be driven away from a forum that is for everyone affected by PD is a little more than "having your feelings hurt", it's their lifeline aswell.
I am aware of at least 2 individuals who ended up committing suicide as a direct result the catastrophic consequences of side effects. I have also come across several people who either attempted or contemplated suicide due to debt, broken relations etc, all caused by side effects.
I have yet to come across anyone who contemplated killing themselves as a result of ROS postings?
So lets get things in prospective! The punishment for upsetting someone feelings on this forum is now a life long ban??? By all means ban ROS for a period of time if he offended someone, but to ban him for life is totally wrong.
I have yet to come across anyone who contemplated killing themselves as a result of ROS postings?
So lets get things in prospective! The punishment for upsetting someone feelings on this forum is now a life long ban??? By all means ban ROS for a period of time if he offended someone, but to ban him for life is totally wrong.
Lets get things in prospective, are we saying bullying is acceptable?
Just because some members haven't experienced OCD problems doesn't mean that they don't need this forum, PD isn't just about DA's and OCD's.
How many times has ray been banned and during these bans how do people cope without him?
Just because some members haven't experienced OCD problems doesn't mean that they don't need this forum, PD isn't just about DA's and OCD's.
How many times has ray been banned and during these bans how do people cope without him?
No, I support completely their right to have their say.
What I object to is a decision being taken to ban Ray for life only on their "say" ie their difficulties with his stance.
The views of all need to be taken into account and the views of those of us who have learned so much and been helped by him, have not been ..
I have searched most of the posts and can only find vigorous, sometimes badly worded, responses from Ray to people who sought to deny the experiences of the DA damaged.
If he e-mailed privately and was hurtful he was wrong but I understand after being warned he never did it again.
He mainly posted on threads which were clearly named to give support to sufferers, yet some people repeatedly posted challenging the concept that DAs had harmed these PWP.
Given his knowledge and experiences he understandably reacted angrily to this challenging of the proven side effects, challenging which he knew would be very distressing to those battling with OCDs and their aftermath.
Basically there now seem to be 2 camps.
Those who agree with the lifelong ban who have not suffered the DA/OCD terror.
Those who want it reversed who have suffered the devastation.
The first camp do not want to read or know of the horrors and consequences as it frightens and upsets them.
The second camp desperately need the information and detailed accounts of fellow sufferers to know they are not alone and can come off the drugs and find sanity again.
How can both groups be accomodated on the forum?
Because whichever way this dispute ends 1 group will not be catered for.
Surely it is not beyond the powers that be to create a new forum that allows all to be supported.
Perhaps posters would be encouraged to not post anything on a thread which attempted to undermine the experiences of those for whom the thread is created?
So,no info re OCD side effects on the positive DA threads and no challenges on the side effects of DAs threads which challenged the harmful effects.
New users could read both,ask questions and make their own minds up.
Any other compromises that could be considered?
What I object to is a decision being taken to ban Ray for life only on their "say" ie their difficulties with his stance.
The views of all need to be taken into account and the views of those of us who have learned so much and been helped by him, have not been ..
I have searched most of the posts and can only find vigorous, sometimes badly worded, responses from Ray to people who sought to deny the experiences of the DA damaged.
If he e-mailed privately and was hurtful he was wrong but I understand after being warned he never did it again.
He mainly posted on threads which were clearly named to give support to sufferers, yet some people repeatedly posted challenging the concept that DAs had harmed these PWP.
Given his knowledge and experiences he understandably reacted angrily to this challenging of the proven side effects, challenging which he knew would be very distressing to those battling with OCDs and their aftermath.
Basically there now seem to be 2 camps.
Those who agree with the lifelong ban who have not suffered the DA/OCD terror.
Those who want it reversed who have suffered the devastation.
The first camp do not want to read or know of the horrors and consequences as it frightens and upsets them.
The second camp desperately need the information and detailed accounts of fellow sufferers to know they are not alone and can come off the drugs and find sanity again.
How can both groups be accomodated on the forum?
Because whichever way this dispute ends 1 group will not be catered for.
Surely it is not beyond the powers that be to create a new forum that allows all to be supported.
Perhaps posters would be encouraged to not post anything on a thread which attempted to undermine the experiences of those for whom the thread is created?
So,no info re OCD side effects on the positive DA threads and no challenges on the side effects of DAs threads which challenged the harmful effects.
New users could read both,ask questions and make their own minds up.
Any other compromises that could be considered?
I have only been a member of this site for about 6 months since DX. During that time ROS was banned then reinstated,more than once, as was another member. During those absences the forum became a much nicer place to be.
People felt free to have discussions about a wide range of issues without fear of ridicule or being dismissed as stupid.
Long may the ban continue if it means other people can feel safe to post their thoughts and have them respected even if not agreed with.
People felt free to have discussions about a wide range of issues without fear of ridicule or being dismissed as stupid.
Long may the ban continue if it means other people can feel safe to post their thoughts and have them respected even if not agreed with.
I suppose I come under both camps, I've suffered because of DA's and I've come through the other side, I don't force my story in peoples faces, I'm well aware of the devastating effects these meds can cause but I don't bully people or ridicule them because they haven't suffered from side effects and because they dare to have a difference of opinion to mine.
No i am not saying bullying is acceptable, however nor is banning ROS for life acceptable! By all means impose another short term ban and if he returns and breaks the rules then impose yet another short term ban. Now if ROS does not learn how to conduct himself, he is going to spend none time off the forum than on it.
The difference in the above approach to that of imposing a non negotiable life time ban is obvious. Also it does not isolate someone forever, someone who like us has parkinsons disease.
The difference in the above approach to that of imposing a non negotiable life time ban is obvious. Also it does not isolate someone forever, someone who like us has parkinsons disease.
sorry about typing error, meant to say "more time off than on the forum"
I have been helped by RoS, I have posted and received posts which have been less than friendly to/from RoS.
I have ridiculed and been ridiculed, I make myself out to be an idiot for comedic effect and sometimes I am an idiot. I have had posts deleted and requested posts I found offensive to me deleted.
There are a fare few people that I totally ignore. I have no interest in anything they have to say.
It's called dealing with people ladies and gentlemen. I learnt as a child if something bothered me, don't let it.
That should be the T&C's for this forum.
I get e-mails everyday questioning the dimensions of a certain appendage.
I get people telling me I need my driveway cleaned.
" my gutters cleaned.
" my double glazing double glazed.
" I need solar panels despite living in Scotland.
People cheese you off. You live with it everyday. You hang up the phone, shut the door, spam and delete the email. You can do these things as politely or impolitely as you want.
I said that that I would not help with this forum, but I'll give you this advice.
An Ignore Button against user names would be simple to implement and go a helluva long way to sorting this entire forum out and would cost you buttons and you wouldn't have to ban anyone, WE could make up our own minds and ban whoever WE like for as long as WE like.
I find this whole scenario utterly stupid.
I'm off to be offensive to RoS be offended by RoS to have a laugh with RoS and get angry with RoS and have a cry with RoS and with many others I have met on this forum and will be happy to leave all you Mary Whitehouse types behind.
Having said that I hope all the Mary Whitehouses grow up.
On that note, I won't be back and would like to request my account be deleted.
I have ridiculed and been ridiculed, I make myself out to be an idiot for comedic effect and sometimes I am an idiot. I have had posts deleted and requested posts I found offensive to me deleted.
There are a fare few people that I totally ignore. I have no interest in anything they have to say.
It's called dealing with people ladies and gentlemen. I learnt as a child if something bothered me, don't let it.
That should be the T&C's for this forum.
I get e-mails everyday questioning the dimensions of a certain appendage.
I get people telling me I need my driveway cleaned.
" my gutters cleaned.
" my double glazing double glazed.
" I need solar panels despite living in Scotland.
People cheese you off. You live with it everyday. You hang up the phone, shut the door, spam and delete the email. You can do these things as politely or impolitely as you want.
I said that that I would not help with this forum, but I'll give you this advice.
An Ignore Button against user names would be simple to implement and go a helluva long way to sorting this entire forum out and would cost you buttons and you wouldn't have to ban anyone, WE could make up our own minds and ban whoever WE like for as long as WE like.
I find this whole scenario utterly stupid.
I'm off to be offensive to RoS be offended by RoS to have a laugh with RoS and get angry with RoS and have a cry with RoS and with many others I have met on this forum and will be happy to leave all you Mary Whitehouse types behind.
Having said that I hope all the Mary Whitehouses grow up.
On that note, I won't be back and would like to request my account be deleted.
decision made then Eck. I will stay and keep up the goodwork you and RoS so successfully started, fight from thr inside Please cange your mind We needs kooks like you
The trouble with having short bans for someone like Ray, who just keeps coming back and doing the same repeatly is that every banning means someone has been upset or frightened,not by his message but his means of delivering it. Besides his aggressive,belittling character asassination PM to me had nothing to do DAs but about a post I had made some two years before where I had not informed some people who were patronising about the nature of Parkinson's.I gather from their postings that some contributors believe that "the end jusifies the means." Please reassure me I am wrong.
What ends justifying what means, i don't understand what are you trying to imply?
I for one have never said people impacted by OCD side effects have any right to insult or offend other forum users! Just as i believe its not right for some people to be almost celebrating ROS being banned for life. It feels like some of those members who are labelling ROS a bully need to look in the mirror! I'm not going to participate anymore in this debate, as its turning into a public execution of someone who no longer has the right to defend himself.
However given it was Tim's decision to issue ROS a life time ban, i would still like an answers the questions that have been directed at you,
1) what offence this time caused you to ban ROS?
2) why the need for a lifetime ban?
3) Is it true you are now ignoring any attempts made by ROS to contact you?
4) why on the same day you ban him for life (for his alleged disruptive behaviour) do you appoint him as an Ambassador for the charity?
5) why have you sat back and allowed this thread to descend in to shambles?
I for one have never said people impacted by OCD side effects have any right to insult or offend other forum users! Just as i believe its not right for some people to be almost celebrating ROS being banned for life. It feels like some of those members who are labelling ROS a bully need to look in the mirror! I'm not going to participate anymore in this debate, as its turning into a public execution of someone who no longer has the right to defend himself.
However given it was Tim's decision to issue ROS a life time ban, i would still like an answers the questions that have been directed at you,
1) what offence this time caused you to ban ROS?
2) why the need for a lifetime ban?
3) Is it true you are now ignoring any attempts made by ROS to contact you?
4) why on the same day you ban him for life (for his alleged disruptive behaviour) do you appoint him as an Ambassador for the charity?
5) why have you sat back and allowed this thread to descend in to shambles?
ECD,please dont mean this to come across rong from me,but ray did that pm to you,ok?but wot he had to say to you was not on the forum ,he still got suspended for that,and he has payed his prison sentence for doin it,then tim let him return ,ray made a promise to keep a low profile and behave,ok fair enough he may of said this before in the past,and let him self down ,but he paid his price agin,and beleave me not bein able to post and watch others talk about you is akiller,ive been there remember.wot gets to me though ECDwhen i was bein bullied last year by pms and emails,i got told it not on the forum,so they can not do nothin about it ,so i got left in amess.you was lucky he pm you he got suspended for doin it,may be they changed there rules with out anyof us nowin,who nows? but it makes me mad.like i said he has done nothin rong since bein here after his last suspension,and he was banned for no reason ,unless he has pm someone else and we dont no about it,but hey dont you think tha if the mods arnt goin to come on here and tell us why,least they could do is tell poor ray.cus he is sittin at home not nowin nothin ,and bein punished for somethin he has not got a clue ,why.and that in my books is very very rude.
By "the end justifies the means," which I believe was taken up by revolutionaries,I mean that to achieve ones goals any sort of behaviour should be tolerated.
If indeed he did nothing to warrant a ban on this occasion it is indeed unfair, but what I was trying to point out by mentioning my P.M is that it may have been out of the public domain.
If indeed he did nothing to warrant a ban on this occasion it is indeed unfair, but what I was trying to point out by mentioning my P.M is that it may have been out of the public domain.
One thing we can be sure of. Cases like this will come up again and again, people being the way they are. The life ban, like the death sentence and flogging before it, should itself be consigned to history.
Having recieved a life ban myself, I can tell you that watching the vultures pick at your carcase wih you having no knowledge of the crime and no way to plead your case, is a torture.
My sympathies to ROS and my congratulations to Ali for the efforts she has made in support of her friend.
Having recieved a life ban myself, I can tell you that watching the vultures pick at your carcase wih you having no knowledge of the crime and no way to plead your case, is a torture.
My sympathies to ROS and my congratulations to Ali for the efforts she has made in support of her friend.
Sorry,couldnt help myself.
Them clothes got laundry numbers on them. You remember your number and always wear the ones that has your number. Any man forgets his number spends a night in the box. These here spoons you keep with you. Any man loses his spoon spends a night in the box. There's no playing grab-ass or fighting in the building. You got a grudge against another man, you fight him Saturday afternoon. Any man playing grab-ass or fighting in the building spends a night in the box. First bell's at five minutes of eight when you will get in your bunk. Last bell is at eight. Any man not in his bunk at eight spends the night in the box. There is no smoking in the prone position in bed. To smoke you must have both legs over the side of your bunk. Any man caught smoking in the prone position in bed... spends a night in the box. You get two sheets. Every Saturday, you put the clean sheet on the top... the top sheet on the bottom... and the bottom sheet you turn in to the laundry boy. Any man turns in the wrong sheet spends a night in the box. No one'll sit in the bunks with dirty pants on. Any man with dirty pants on sitting on the bunks spends a night in the box. Any man don't bring back his empty pop bottle spends a night in the box. Any man loud talking spends a night in the box. You got questions, you come to me. I'm Carr, the floor walker. I'm responsible for order in here. Any man don't keep order spends a night in the box.
Them clothes got laundry numbers on them. You remember your number and always wear the ones that has your number. Any man forgets his number spends a night in the box. These here spoons you keep with you. Any man loses his spoon spends a night in the box. There's no playing grab-ass or fighting in the building. You got a grudge against another man, you fight him Saturday afternoon. Any man playing grab-ass or fighting in the building spends a night in the box. First bell's at five minutes of eight when you will get in your bunk. Last bell is at eight. Any man not in his bunk at eight spends the night in the box. There is no smoking in the prone position in bed. To smoke you must have both legs over the side of your bunk. Any man caught smoking in the prone position in bed... spends a night in the box. You get two sheets. Every Saturday, you put the clean sheet on the top... the top sheet on the bottom... and the bottom sheet you turn in to the laundry boy. Any man turns in the wrong sheet spends a night in the box. No one'll sit in the bunks with dirty pants on. Any man with dirty pants on sitting on the bunks spends a night in the box. Any man don't bring back his empty pop bottle spends a night in the box. Any man loud talking spends a night in the box. You got questions, you come to me. I'm Carr, the floor walker. I'm responsible for order in here. Any man don't keep order spends a night in the box.
I'd be very suprised if the member concerned was not made aware of why he has received a life ban, its an important aspect of being a moderator that one should not weld the axe without good reason/reasons and the guilty party should be fully aware and informed of their behaviour that caused such a ban. I'm sure the moderating team would've done this.
Fact is its not really the publics or remaining members right to know as to the reasons why he got banned, it should only be a matter between the member and the moderating team.
Bear in mind that a lot goes on behind the scenes via email and PM's and there is also the problem of a member having multiple logins, so dont assume because the member concerned has not seemingly written something derogatory on the forums that he hasn't done something wrong behind the scenes, also bear in mind that he has been banned from other forums, is that really the type of person one wishes to admire, support, and respect? I think NOT !
What i do think is wrong is that the forums can be read by any member of the public without having to register and log in, so sadly the whole wide world is reading what you the reader are reading too.
Its now time to move on and from whatever side of the fence you sit come together and move forward as a group for the benefit of ALL within the community.
.......its time for a group hug
Fact is its not really the publics or remaining members right to know as to the reasons why he got banned, it should only be a matter between the member and the moderating team.
Bear in mind that a lot goes on behind the scenes via email and PM's and there is also the problem of a member having multiple logins, so dont assume because the member concerned has not seemingly written something derogatory on the forums that he hasn't done something wrong behind the scenes, also bear in mind that he has been banned from other forums, is that really the type of person one wishes to admire, support, and respect? I think NOT !
What i do think is wrong is that the forums can be read by any member of the public without having to register and log in, so sadly the whole wide world is reading what you the reader are reading too.
Its now time to move on and from whatever side of the fence you sit come together and move forward as a group for the benefit of ALL within the community.
.......its time for a group hug
A "Cool" post compost 
We recognise that the recent moderators' decision concerning Ray of Sunshine, though not taken lightly, has raised some strong and diverse feelings among members of the forum community.
These have been expressed clearly in many of the posts on this thread made over the last few days, with particular reference being made to the support Ray of Sunshine has given people affected by impulsive and compulsive behaviours.
At Parkinson's UK and within the forum moderation team we are very concerned to ensure we listen and take account of your feedback. In order to do this in a way that's fair to everyone who has commented, we need to take some time over the next couple of days to talk with forum users and come up with some possible ways to resolve this issue.
Meanwhile it's important that the forum remains a welcoming space for everyone, including new users and we're concerned that the tone of this thread could drive people away. We'd therefore like to suggest that we end this discussion on the forum now but please be assured that we will look at how we can take your views into account and get back to you within the next few days.
These have been expressed clearly in many of the posts on this thread made over the last few days, with particular reference being made to the support Ray of Sunshine has given people affected by impulsive and compulsive behaviours.
At Parkinson's UK and within the forum moderation team we are very concerned to ensure we listen and take account of your feedback. In order to do this in a way that's fair to everyone who has commented, we need to take some time over the next couple of days to talk with forum users and come up with some possible ways to resolve this issue.
Meanwhile it's important that the forum remains a welcoming space for everyone, including new users and we're concerned that the tone of this thread could drive people away. We'd therefore like to suggest that we end this discussion on the forum now but please be assured that we will look at how we can take your views into account and get back to you within the next few days.