Mouse buying


#1
A silly question maybe ... but is it allowed for an individual to buy some lab mice with some genetic form of PD and perform tests on them ? I mean, suppose I want to determine if for a certain genetic strain providing mice daily with decafeinated coffee slows down PD on them; and at the same time determine optimal dosage ... am I allowed to do this as a private person ?

#2
I just reread my post and my English was horrible :grin:. But you know what I mean :sunglasses:

#3
I don't think you can, Mr X. It's strictly regulated by the Home Office.

I lifted the following from the Oxford Uni website following a google search...


UK regulations on research using animals

Animal research in the UK is strictly regulated.

The laws on research using animals are set out in the Animals (Scientific Procedures) Act 1986, or ‘ASPA’.

The Home Office enforces the laws, including regulations on housing, environment, welfare, care, and health.

Permission to work with animals is granted by the Home Office by licence only under very specific conditions. The Home Office has an inspection system to ensure that rules are not violated.

The Home Office provides information about the regulations governing research using animals.

#4
I don't want to discourage you Mr.X but even if you find a source, my guess is you are going to need a lot of $$ to get any conclusive data! You need a control group, a placebo group, many groups to test different drugs & dosages etc...and a cold heart of course since you may end up killing a lot of mice :disappointed:

#5
"You need a control group, a placebo group"

Why do I need a placebo group ? These mice have been used in previous placebo tests too. If some of the researchers could pass me their data on the placebo group, I only need to focus on the control group.

There are some interesting things that I could test. One of them is astaxanthin, which is known for its strong neuroprotective properties. At the same time it is a beta-carotenoid and I know from this paper that beta-carotenoid inhibits alpha-synuclein fibrils and could therefore be beneficial for PD: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17169566

Many other things could also be tested, even things that have been shown not to be neuroprotective. For example, suppose coenzyme Q10 which was not shown to be neuroprotective for humans. I know my father has a mutation in his GBA gene that increases his odds of getting PD with a factor 7. So I could test CoQ10 on mice with the same mutation and verify whether it could be neuroprotective for the mutation my father has or not. I truely believe the clinical tests done so far have been done badly. Patients have not been splitted according to their type of PD. Therefore, I am very convinced that many substances that have been rejected as neuroprotective could still be neuroprotective if given to the right population of PD patients. And this is what I want to find out.

Now, there is the problem that I am probably not allowed to do this research at my home. But I just got the idea to contact the university where I used to study and try to convince one of the professors to get into this research and I will fund the mice needed as well as the substances that I want to test. I will get the results I want, and they will get information based on which they can publish extra scientific papers.

#6
Hi Mister X

Nice idea but mouse research is labour intensive, complex and therefore very expensive; such research is normally done at multiple research centres across Europe and the world and funded at governmental level.

Mouse breed relatively slowly (approx once every 2 months) and for the type of study you propose you need lots of mice over multiple generations in multiple colonies. You will need a large colony of wild type mice; both early onset and late onset mouse models of PD to test the affect of the compound in the disease state; to mimic late onset you will have to age the mice up to 18 months. Its not the cost of buying mice (they self perpetuate!), its the cost of maintaining the very high standard of care required by law when looking after mice for research. A grant for your study would probably ask for a 3-5 year study period and cost millions of pounds. Research is very expensive!

And your study has to be approved by the home office

Sorry...

dr jonny

#7
Dr. Johny, thanks for the clarification.

#8
Do you really need mice when your father is a perfect human a-synuclein model? Besides even if you get some answers from working with mice, you still need to go through human trials for the correct dosage. For things that are relatively harmless like vitamins and some nutritional supplements, it's easy to find out. You simply need to do an assessment of the various parameters before and after.
Good luck.

#9
Quiest,

I don't agree with you. There is so much he can take. I want to know what does help and what doesn't. For example, astaxanthin. I have no idea whether it will make the problem worse or slow it down. If you can test this on a group of mice with the same defect gene, a quite good answer can be obtained.

Of course, I already realize this is impossible for me to do this. It costs too much money.