Protein and levadopa


#1
eating protein will cause less levadopa to get through.
does anyone have any experience with different sources of protein causing more or less problems?
ie
red meat, white meat, milk, cheese, eggs, nuts, beans
which is worse which is best or do all have the same effect?

#2
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Actually is a brilliant thought and you will do well with this illness because you think stuff through and have great humour about you . Not convinced protein stops dopamine getting through enough to even worry about . Hard to digest foods will bog down liver and slow take up rate . But i think same amount of medicine will get through - just takes longer sow iore previous one on empty stomach will have gone before uptake of next . I think all meds work for longer on

A light stomach . Have you noticed you dont get so much out of meds after taking protein then turnip ?

#3
It is a good Q turnip. Levodopa competes with proteins in food for carriers that allow it to pass into the blood stream & cross the blood/brain barrier. I take my pills at least 1/2 hour after eating, but only because I have been told to do so not from experience. I have no idea whether animal/ plant protein differ in their effect when it comes to PD meds. I am not inclined to experiment personally (I do not eat meat) but I would be most interested in any info.

#4
always try and give my husnband his sinemet doses in between meals only because it is what I have read . Dont really know if it makes a difference .

We normally have a main meal about 3 pm . I do find that he is a little better as the day goes on and sometimes in the evening he is much better.

#5
Levodopa is a protein. If there is more protein about then there is competition in absorption. It is best to take levodopa three quarters to half an hour before a meal or one and a half to two hours after, although a particularly heavy meal would probably delay absorption more and requires a longer period. There is only so much room on the 'conveyor belt' in your blood that transports the levodopa to your brain. I definitely find that levodopa works most reliably( within half an hour) on an empty stomach. Its effect is more haphazard, both in when it starts to work and for how long, when my stomach has a lot of food in it.
It often says on the box to take these meds with food, because some people have a problem with nausea, but this does not mean a meal; a biscuit/slice of bread and jam will do.

#6
can't think what dear Rubbish had said thats been removed! perhaps best not to know?

anyway, though its hard to measure i do think my madopar works better if i don't eat protein. i think meat might be the worse offender and nuts might be ok. but its so subjective that i had hoped for some evidence from other people (do two subjective views add up to a more objective view?). I wouldnt now, for example, have bacon and eggs for breakfast.

as the fast show used to put it, this week i am mostly eating dates - low protein and good for 'the digestion'.

i can't find any scientific evidence - the problem seems to be competition getting past the blood-brain barrier (reminds me of customs at an airport) so testing blood samples is no help.

#7
hello Kate
my last post was before i saw yours.
conveyor belt, customs - perhaps most like the conveyor into the xray machine to check that its allowed into the transit lounge!

#8
AB - 5 to 5 in the morning so i didnt take in everything you said and so repeated it!
thanks to everyone for your responses,i will re-read them when i am more with it!
back to bed for me.

#9
turnip er al,
I have a similar concern about protein but feel its the timing of taking madopar (levadopa) in conjunction with amount of protein.

To close to mealtime and no noticeable effect but even if I take madopar 1 hour before or after the effect varies (which may be the protein).
I took the "levadopa challenge" as an out patient after my last Neuro visit.
............No food after evening meal and into day patient clinic at 10 am. Levadopa as a tablet dissolved in water and next wait an hour. Difference was measurable and lasted about an hour.
So have a base that............it works if you don't eat for 14 hours and rest for an hour after taking the levadopa. But apart from that it is hit and miss on taking Levadopa before or after a meal. Although anecdotally a light meal seems to have less effect.

westby

#10
Yes - yellow carded - cinical - hold my hands up - fully deserved. So back to question - are all proteins equal - yes but some are more equal than others - someone had to say it - by the way turnip , great question for saturday afternoon - no wonder you have many replies

#11
I'm not sure all proteins are equal in terms of how they impact levodopa. For example, i can eat as much tuna as i want and when i want! Yet a bowl of porridge (made with milk) renders my meds useless. When i asked my Neuro why is it i can eat loads of tuna (which is high in protein) without any impact to the performance of my meds? His reply was to say he did not know and maybe I'm really a pussycat.....:confused: Very helpful!

#12
Hi rubbish, just an observation: I came across your list of drugs and noticed that your levodopa medication is all slow release (CR), which is unusual and so your experiences might be different from most of us. When I started on levodopa, it seemed to me logical that a slow release tablet would even out the levodopa better over the day than ordinary levodopa tablets,and (I hoped) this might help avoiding or delaying the dyskinesias that were sure to follow after a few years. My neurologist (and I have since read about others of the same opinion), however, said that slow release levodopa is less predictable in its effect and more difficult to get the dose right. You will find most take the odd CR medication, usually at night( as I do).

#13
blueeyes -thats very intersting regarding the tuna. your neuro seems to be a pillock.
kate - yes, the cr is not affected presumably because its not all dumped on the conveyor belt.
rubbish - cynical is usually not far off the truth

#14
Hi I've been having trouble getting part of my medication (selegiline made by ratiopharm) I was given by the local chemist a generic substitute which did not agree with me. I kept falling over, losing my balance, i was wondering if anybody else had experienced the same effects. I managed to get some more but it's hard to get a hold of.

#15
On a slightly different topic -
when Dr Sacks gave levadopa to his patients 40 years ago, he gave it with orange juice and it didnt work. Then he tried apple juice and it worked. Madopar advice is not to take it with orange juice but some people say that orange juice makes it work faster.
anyone know the facts?

#16
Here's a list of protein foods and exactly how much protein is in them.

http://www.healthaliciousness.com/articles/foods-highest-in-protein.php

From what I have read protein restricted to evening meals is a possible way forward. Motor fluctuations can sometimes be resolved by waiting an hour or so either side of levodopa consumption to consume foods high in protein.

Cheers,
rico

#17
I have found the longer I have been on Levadopa the more food plays a role. I now stick to small meals and often. Taking Levadopa 45 minutes before food works best for me. PD slows down digestion and food can stay in the gut a lot longer compared to someone of good health. Foods high in saturated fats and protein stay in the gut longer. I tend to eat more chicken and fish and occasionally have red meat. Proteins and fats are much harder to digest when eaten in the same meal with sugars (carbohydrates). A small amount of meat eaten at a meal that ends with cake, pie, ice cream or fruit might digest reasonably well, while the same meal with a larger amount of meat (a steak or beefburger, for instance) may create an uncomfortable digestive problem. This is why I keep portion sizes small.

I have experimented with what kind of drinks I take my Levadopa with. I find sparkling mineral water works best and plenty of water in between. It's important to keep the body hydrated. A few sips of water with a tablet isn't enough, you need to drink a big glass with each dose.

I have also discovered keeping active once I've taken my tablets helps them to kick in quicker and aids digestion. Not sure why, maybe it's something to do with exercise speeding up metabolism.

These observations are of my personal experience.

#18
Hi Blueeyes,

I have also noticed porridge plays havoc with medication. I wonder if its because milk which is protein, mixed with porridge oats (carbohydrate) and a good spoon of sugar, golden syrup or fruit to sweeten it (more carbohydrates), causes it to stay in the stomach a lot longer ~ combine that with a sluggish PD gut?!

Maybe we need to look at food combinations??

Best regards
Cutiepie

#19
I have found that soft cheeses and scrambled eggs and milk are the worst. I too can eat any amount of tuna, and vegetable protein. Chicken and hard cheese in moderation have a slight effect on meds, in excess they do stop them working. I rarely eat red meat but on rare occasions have a bacon sandwich which has no adverse effects at all.

By the way, I loved the cat story in a way that only people with PD can understand .............:wink:

#20
hi lindylanka

All joking aside my neuro firmly believes that, understanding the impact different types of protein has on the brain is the key to unlocking the door to PD. Just like you i find milk, eggs and soft cheeses are a massive NO NO. Yet tuna and vegetable proteins are fine?

The other thing i find interesting is, i can eat a good portion of a organic hard cheese with little or no effect to my meds performance! Yet soft cheese's or processed cheese is a massive NO NO. Maybe it could be more down to what the manufactures add to certain products which causes the problem and not so much protein itself?

regards
bluey