very interesting and thought provoking.
So the forces of law and order keep the bad guys under control but eventually lose control in one difficult to police area which then slowly spreads.
A question for btb - would you say dementia was the result of the toxic alpha-syncs (great name for a street gang) moving in on other neighbourhoods (hippocampus?) or an effect of the irregularities of dopamine on these cells?
also would the scenario fit in with anti-inflamatory use?
Turnip........I don't know the answer to those questions. I suspect a comparison of the development of dementia in Alzheimers to that in PD will shed some light but I havn't read the relevant literature yet (if any).
Hi There,Ihave just read the posts onthis sight and wouldlike to give
you my insight into my parkinsons. I am a Cabinetmaker to trade,dealing
in high class furniture,which is motly hardwoods,African Walnut ,
Mahogany,Burma Teakand African Rosewood.This harwoods have to be finished
off by hand/sanding,which caused a lot of fine hardwood particles
of dust floating in the air,Rosewood dust is a cancer of the nose
agent,the old cabinetmakers would not wear a mask.I contracted
Chronic Rhinitis,which I had for 35 years,feeling miserable mosst
days.It was me that kept Kleenex afloat, When I developed Parkinsons
guess what,the Rhinitis has totally dissapeared,I feel there could be
a link,but I know this might be just a co-incidence,but how has the
Rhinitis completely gone,only for the Parkinsons to follow.Thanks.
you my insight into my parkinsons. I am a Cabinetmaker to trade,dealing
in high class furniture,which is motly hardwoods,African Walnut ,
Mahogany,Burma Teakand African Rosewood.This harwoods have to be finished
off by hand/sanding,which caused a lot of fine hardwood particles
of dust floating in the air,Rosewood dust is a cancer of the nose
agent,the old cabinetmakers would not wear a mask.I contracted
Chronic Rhinitis,which I had for 35 years,feeling miserable mosst
days.It was me that kept Kleenex afloat, When I developed Parkinsons
guess what,the Rhinitis has totally dissapeared,I feel there could be
a link,but I know this might be just a co-incidence,but how has the
Rhinitis completely gone,only for the Parkinsons to follow.Thanks.
Hi Blueeyes I take 400mgs of ibuprofen 3 x daily and i have not noticed any difference in symptoms and have not been able to reduce my meds i take 41 tabs per day sorry if this puts a negative thought in your head but what works for one does not always work for another I hope it is a solution for you good luck may be it will have some good effect for others ?
Hello Sky,
Try this link:
www,newscientist,com/rhinitis
I hope it works - links and I do not get on particularly well.
The article suggests that PWP are 3X more likely to have been troubled by allergic rhinitis. Something to do with the inflamation being linked to the onset of neuro-degenerative disorder.
Fits in with Lily's post re antihistamines.
Poor you. I am tempted to ask which do you prefer -chronic rhinitis or PD, but I wont!
Best wishes
Try this link:
www,newscientist,com/rhinitis
I hope it works - links and I do not get on particularly well.
The article suggests that PWP are 3X more likely to have been troubled by allergic rhinitis. Something to do with the inflamation being linked to the onset of neuro-degenerative disorder.
Fits in with Lily's post re antihistamines.
Poor you. I am tempted to ask which do you prefer -chronic rhinitis or PD, but I wont!
Best wishes
Very recent research using a progressing PD model in the rat has shown that caffeine can slow down the spread of the disease in the brain. So, a good reason to keep drinking black tea..
Delayed caffeine treatment prevents nigral dopamine neuron loss in a progressive rat model of Parkinson's disease
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22309831
Delayed caffeine treatment prevents nigral dopamine neuron loss in a progressive rat model of Parkinson's disease
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22309831
i wonder how accurate the mouse and rat models are for neuroprotection? these animals have been injected with chemicals that mimic pd, but if the on-going pd process is selfperpetuating prion-like or immune-system driven then they might be completely worthless? my amateur feeling is that only tests on primates are reliable as it is only then that the progression is as it is in pd.
Trouble is Turnip, is that people tend to get even more upset when a primate is killed so that it's brain can be examined to evaluate the results of the experiment even more than they do when the same is done to a mouse or a rat
Reminds me - I need a new mouse mat
Yes.....looking at the legends to the figures, I see that the neurotoxin MPP+ was administered throughout the 30 days of the experiment to maintain "progression" of the disease and that makes it an unreliable model from which to draw any firm conclusions about the efficacy of caffeine in stopping spread in humans.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0014488612000428
..........but I'm still going to drink 5 cups of black tea every day....
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0014488612000428
..........but I'm still going to drink 5 cups of black tea every day....
I noticed some people over her taking Black Tea. Why ? Is there a study that tells Black Tea slows down Parkinson's ? The only study I can find of it, is that it would prevent you from getting Parkinson's; not it's effect on what it does when you already have it. Does anyone have more info ? And those having Parkinson's disease and taking black tea ... can you confirm ny experience it helps you in any kind of way ?
quite right AB, i seem to recall that growing human neurons was going to be the way forward for experiments - or did i imagine that.
the tricky thing with any individual's use of neuro-protection is there is no way of knowing what it would have been like without it. also its a matter of subtle changes over years that are very hard to measure. i feel, touch wood, that my rate of change has been modest and put that down to early use of das and levadopa and maob-i but i can;'t know what would have happened if i hadnt taken them. especially as rates of change vary and sometimes a major qualitative change can occur with a small quantitative change.
the tricky thing with any individual's use of neuro-protection is there is no way of knowing what it would have been like without it. also its a matter of subtle changes over years that are very hard to measure. i feel, touch wood, that my rate of change has been modest and put that down to early use of das and levadopa and maob-i but i can;'t know what would have happened if i hadnt taken them. especially as rates of change vary and sometimes a major qualitative change can occur with a small quantitative change.
Mister X, at the beginning of this thread we discussed whether black tea which contains theaflavins which
stop cell death of mouse neurons caused by neurotoxin in a mouse PD model
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22138428
stimulate the removal of alpha synuclein by autophagy
http://rossscience.org/ojns/articles/2075-9088-2-1.htm
acted to decrease the risk of PD (http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/167/5/553.full#sec-6)
by preventing its initiation, its progression or both. There is no evidence yet for either but it is not improbable given the properties of the theaflavins that they could act to slow down progression. There is some recent evidence that caffeine (which is also in black tea) slows down progression of PD in a mouse model.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0014488612000428
Another interesting compound just published on is Posiphen which stops the production of alpha synuclein in the mouse carrying the human gene.
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/pd/2012/142372/
Posiphen has very low toxicity so it can be dosed at high levels. The authors are currently examining its metabolites to see if any show more activity than the parent compound ..........
stop cell death of mouse neurons caused by neurotoxin in a mouse PD model
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22138428
stimulate the removal of alpha synuclein by autophagy
http://rossscience.org/ojns/articles/2075-9088-2-1.htm
acted to decrease the risk of PD (http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/167/5/553.full#sec-6)
by preventing its initiation, its progression or both. There is no evidence yet for either but it is not improbable given the properties of the theaflavins that they could act to slow down progression. There is some recent evidence that caffeine (which is also in black tea) slows down progression of PD in a mouse model.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0014488612000428
Another interesting compound just published on is Posiphen which stops the production of alpha synuclein in the mouse carrying the human gene.
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/pd/2012/142372/
Posiphen has very low toxicity so it can be dosed at high levels. The authors are currently examining its metabolites to see if any show more activity than the parent compound ..........
btb
thanks for the posiphen article reference. very interesting. the problem that comes to mind is that alpha-syn is not just a baddy but has useful purposes too (not all known!) so what happens if it is over-suppressed? but still very encouraging. good intro too covering all the interconnections - its all incredibly complex; and with such strange entities as 5'utr - sounds like something from star wars.
cheers
thanks for the posiphen article reference. very interesting. the problem that comes to mind is that alpha-syn is not just a baddy but has useful purposes too (not all known!) so what happens if it is over-suppressed? but still very encouraging. good intro too covering all the interconnections - its all incredibly complex; and with such strange entities as 5'utr - sounds like something from star wars.
cheers
Bartobob, thanks for summarizing the information. As for other neuroprotective treatments:
- Gou teng (see my thread): It was tested in a clinical phase 1. People taking this could sleep better and had less symptoms than those that were on placebo. Initially, those on placebo were more or less the same but after a certain period the ones on placebo suddenly got worse. Research on mice showed there is a component in Gou teng that stimulates autophagy to remove a-synuclein. The protecting component was patented. A clinical trial phase 2 has been started.
- Exercise: Exercise is supposed to release BDNF, a growth factor. You can find a lot of info yourself on the internet. One article that I once read was very interesting. It says that when you turn 30, your brain starts to shrink bit by bit. But people that exercise, keep their brain big and young. Tests were performed on older people and they could see people that didn't exercise, had brain that shrinked; the ones that did exercise kept their brain size big.
- Gou teng (see my thread): It was tested in a clinical phase 1. People taking this could sleep better and had less symptoms than those that were on placebo. Initially, those on placebo were more or less the same but after a certain period the ones on placebo suddenly got worse. Research on mice showed there is a component in Gou teng that stimulates autophagy to remove a-synuclein. The protecting component was patented. A clinical trial phase 2 has been started.
- Exercise: Exercise is supposed to release BDNF, a growth factor. You can find a lot of info yourself on the internet. One article that I once read was very interesting. It says that when you turn 30, your brain starts to shrink bit by bit. But people that exercise, keep their brain big and young. Tests were performed on older people and they could see people that didn't exercise, had brain that shrinked; the ones that did exercise kept their brain size big.
i, like many pwp, loved doing exercise but have.for the last 25 years been thwarted from doing it by pd caused tendonitis. on the other hand extreme exercise, eg running a marathon may have the opposite effect and introduce free radicals into the body and have negative effects on the immune system.
eg http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16923247
http://www.nickmitchellblog.com/marathon-running/
http://scienceandreason.blogspot.com.au/2010/08/what-does-marathon-running-do-to.html
http://www.nickmitchellblog.com/marathon-running/
http://scienceandreason.blogspot.com.au/2010/08/what-does-marathon-running-do-to.html
OK, but marathon running is a bit exagerated. I didn't advice people to run 24 hours non-stop. Just exercise in between 30-60 minutes is enough ;).
i agree.
i just have a nasty suspicion that ultra-exercise has actually had a part to play in some cases and it might turn out to be ironic that puk used the london marathon as a fundraiser. i hope not.
i just have a nasty suspicion that ultra-exercise has actually had a part to play in some cases and it might turn out to be ironic that puk used the london marathon as a fundraiser. i hope not.